Estimated reading time: 19 minutes
Thanks to Ralph for sharing his story with other veterans interested in medicine.
Tell us a bit about yourself and your military history.
Like a lot of us who are in our mid 20s-30s, 9/11 left an indelible impression on me, so it was always in my plan to serve in some capacity. I was also a Marine brat for half of my childhood which naturally drew me toward the military. So when I was around 16/17, I was already talking to recruiters. I started thinking about being a physician in high school and so opted into being a 68W (Combat Medic) in the National Guard while I went to college and did ROTC.
At school, I changed my mind to join the infantry, wanting something instead of this whole medical school thing. Plus I wasn’t the biggest fan of studying when I was younger. So I got my degree in History and did ROTC, commissioning into the infantry branch in 2011/2012. I actually met Mark Delaney at LDAC back in 2010 before running into him again at Fort Bragg. I reported there to take a platoon after I completed IBOLC, Ranger, and Airborne schools at Benning.
I did my PL time and did some time as an assistant S3 in 1-505th PIR, 82nd Airborne Division. In between making countless slide decks, flipping slides at command and staff briefs, and writing daily OPORDs, it crossed my mind to switch gears and try getting into medical school. So I left the army in 2015 and started the journey to becoming an MD.
And what did you do after you left active duty?
Since my degree is in history and you need a spate of requirements to apply to medical school, I started taking undergrad classes and doing other activities to build my application. I applied to about 10 schools and ultimately ended up choosing Ohio State to do my prereqs.
There are a number of ways to go about doing a post-baccalaureate. There are formal programs like Bryn Mawr, Scripps, Tufts, and others where they have everything scheduled for you- from classes to research to volunteering. They’re a bit pricey, but being used to routine in the military, this might be a good path if you know that you thrive off of that. You can also just enroll somewhere and organize that schedule yourself. It’s a lot cheaper and you have more say in how long it takes to complete. The formal post-bacc programs tend to be 1.5-2 years. The DIY route is as long as you want it to be.
I chose the DIY route for a handful of reasons. If you do the DIY post-bacc option, make sure you pick a school that’s fairly reputable (reputation/prestige isn’t the end all be all- and you can do these classes at a community college- but truth be told, it matters to a degree where you go if you want to attend a good medical school). Lastly, some formal post-bacc options have what’s called linkage programs which means you can skip having to take a gap year for interviews if you choose to. I’m skeptical of them because I don’t think the participating schools lend that much more weight to your application and it certainly won’t outweigh a bad application, but it’s worth figuring out for yourself if it’s for you.
It took me about 4 years to do the pre reqs. For one, I wanted to make sure I got As in all of my courses (GPA is a huge consideration for medical school applications), so I only took two classes per semester. I also had a handful of life events pop up to navigate, so that slowed me down a bit. And lastly, if I’m completely honest, there were a lot of moments that I questioned that path and looked into other things like PA school, engineering, graduate/PhD, etc. Looking back, I’m glad I explored these other options because you really have to make sure you want to pursue the medical school route before going. Once you’re in a boatload of debt, it’s a lot harder to turn back.
But apart from that I basically took a couple of classes per semester, did some extracurricular stuff, and made sure I enjoyed myself a bit in the process too. Med school is really busy and residency is even busier, so I’m also thankful that I was able to enjoy hobbies like working out, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, playing guitar, and other activities before I started medical school because a lot of that has fallen off the radar and been replaced with studying.
(Special thanks to Ralph for taking the time to help with this site as a busy med student!)
Where would you tell a veteran to start in applying to medical school?
Try to find an affordable state school that offers in-state tuition. Go to a private school if they have the Yellow Ribbon Program. If this is your first time going to school, pick a major that appeals to you- it doesn’t matter if you choose to study philosophy because you can take the prerequisites on the side.I’d recommend picking a major that gives you a backup plan if you decide not to do medical school.
The general suite of pre-reqs are:
- One year of Bio with lab
- One year of chemistry with lab
- One year of organic chemistry with lab
- One semester of biochemistry
- One year of physics, and
- A calculus or statistics course
There is a catalogue on the AAMC website called the MSAR– its’ roughly $25 for a one-year subscription and it will tell you everything about every MD program in the country and Canada from the average GPA, average MCAT scores, what classes they require, the price, and more.
Don’t be afraid to use your military service to your advantage. It’s far easier to get a job in a lab as an assistant because they’ll automatically assume you’re punctual, organized, and professional. Also, find a mentor in medicine as soon as you can. Don’t hesitate to cold-call or email physicians or researchers for shadowing, research positions, or just to ask them questions. Worst case is they won’t answer.
(Mark’s note: I did a quick search on Veterati and did not see any profiles of mentors with an MD. Next best place to start? Go to LinkedIn, search “doctor army/navy/air force /marines” and see who comes up.)
Additionally, make a point to connect with other veterans at your school or program. OSU had a vets lounge where I’d go if I needed a break from 19-20 year olds and talk to like-minded people. There are currently about 5 veterans in my med school class and getting connected with them has been tremendously helpful.
As for paying for school outside of the GI Bill, absolutely apply for scholarships. There are also scholarships if you know you want to commit to family medicine, primary care, practicing rural medicine, or work at the VA.
What kinds of grades in what classes will you need?
They look primarily at your science GPA versus your cumulative. This includes biology, chemistry, physics, and math classes. I’d recommend aiming for a 3.7+ for your science GPA and the same for your cumulative. The higher the better. I’d recommend taking 2 pre-req classes per semester and no more than 3. They can be pretty time consuming and the material can be frustrating at times. Don’t be afraid to drop a class or even withdraw as a last ditch effort if need be to preserve your GPA- just have a good reason lined up in case it gets brought up during interviews.
How long did you spend studying for the MCAT? What resources did you find most useful in your preparation?
I studied a bit longer than most people- most people I know took a summer (2-3 months) to cover it. I spent about 4 months but it definitely paid off and I got a solid score. I’d say 2 months would be the shortest and 4 the longest.
I used the Kaplan books, Uworld for practice questions, the AAMC section banks and practice tests, and Khan Academy for psychology. There are Anki flashcard decks you can use- I’d recommend those over any of the test company ones. I also found this website run by a test prep consultant to be helpful. There’s also an MCAT subreddit that has a lot of information.
So in sum, take as long as you need to cover those or any other resources you choose. There’s a good number of facts you have to memorize, but at the end of the day, it’s largely a critical reasoning/reading comprehension test and it takes time to build those skills. You only want to take it once though, so wait until you’re prepared.
How important are extracurriculars in the admissions process? Where can veterans (or anyone) go for these types of programs?
It’s pretty important to show admissions committees that you have a vested interest in science, medicine and you understand what it means to be a physician. To demonstrate this commitment to medicine, you should have some experience with leadership (which is usually pretty easy to illustrate as a veteran), researching in a lab (doesn’t matter where- publications and poster presentations are a plus), shadowing a couple of different physician specialities, and volunteering in a clinical and non-clinical setting (the former can be a job in healthcare as well- see below). Those are generally the boxes that you want to check.
As for getting those opportunities, I’d recommend finding someone who runs a lab with research in which you’re interested and emailing them. Reach out to hospitals or find out who runs volunteer programs there, talk to physicians you know or just reach out to them, or talk to the pre-med advisor at your school. Generally, pre-med clubs won’t do much for you, so spend that time recharging or going to the gym.
What types of extracurricular experience did you have?
I volunteered at a lab for a bit (a couple of different labs- eventually found a neurologist doing clinical research that I enjoyed), volunteered at a children’s hospital where I played games with the kids, I worked at a hospital as a nurse’s aide (no experience or prior training required), volunteered at a homeless shelter, and I shadowed a neurosurgeon, orthopedic surgeon, and a pediatrician. Quality is more important than quantity, but I did the nurse’s aid job for a couple of years, volunteered a few hundred hours, and did research for about a year.
What’s the interview process like for medical school?
After you get your MCAT score back and it’s the spring of the year prior to starting med school, you are in the window to apply (so for me, it was spring of 2018 and I started med school fall of 2019). Just an FYI, you can still take pre-reqs or finish your last year of school during this period.
As far as the process goes, there’s what’s called the primary application on the AAMC website where you put in your GPA, your MCAT score, and you list all of your extracurriculars. This is due around June if I remember correctly. Your transcripts are vetted by someone working at AAMC and they “verify” your application. So once that is done, you pay to have the app sent to whatever schools you list on the AAMC website. They’ll review it and most schools will send you a secondary app to fill out.
Some schools have GPA and MCAT cut-offs, but most will gladly take your money even if there’s no chance of getting in. So use the MSAR that I mentioned above to figure out what the average GPA and MCAT are and what your realistic chance of getting in will be.
Then the schools will send you a secondary application with questions like “why medicine” or “why our school”, “experiences overcoming challenges”, or “experiences with diversity” questions to fill out. It is quite time-consuming and both the primary and secondary applications can cost around or over 100 dollars total. So it’s important to pick schools wisely. That said, it’s also important to have a good number of ‘safety’, ‘target’, and ‘reach’ schools that you apply to. Five of each is a good number. I ended up applying to 30 because I wanted to apply to a bunch of top-ranked schools.
Once you finish the secondary application, you wait. Around August is when a lot of interview invites come in, but they can come as late as February. If you are like me, you end up nervously checking your email multiple times a day.
I got around 15 invites and attended about 10 interviews. You pick a date and drive or fly out to do the interview. They tell you all about the program, have you do a tour, and there are usually two in-person interviews that are about 30 minutes each. It’s typically one with a physician and one with a med student. They ask you about your story, why medicine, why their school, what speciality, ask you about a time you solved a problem or showed good leadership. They might also ask you about something on your application- whether it’s something they have questions about on your application (for me it was a lot clarifying what something military-related meant) or a weakness they saw on your application.
I would definitely recommend practicing for these questions with a friend and having a well-tailored suit. There are also interviews called Multiple-Mini-Interviews (MMIs) where there are a handful of 5-minute stations and you solve puzzles or act out an ethical dilemma. The military prepared me adequately for all aspects of the interview.
(Mark’s note: My former medic applied to medical school and described these to me. He described going into a room and immediately being presented with a situation that you have to handle. The admissions committee uses these scenarios, in part, to see how you handle interfacing with patients and family and help assess if you have the right kind of emotional intelligence for a career in medicine.)
After the interview, you wait some more. Most schools will tell you when the acceptances will go out. I’d recommend looking up the acceptance rates for schools which I found on a document someone compiled on reddit (again, r/premed and r/MCAT were good resources. If I have no other opportunity to mention this, I’d say stay away from Student Doctor Network as much as possible). Sometime in the fall (October I think) is the earliest they can release acceptances but I got most responses by Feb/Mar. It could be anytime in that window that they let you know.
After you get accepted, they’ll have something called ‘second look weekend’ where you come back to check out the community and the school and solidify your decision to attend or decide to go elsewhere. Then you move in the summer and start sometime around July or August.
How many schools did you apply to?
About 30- it’s a bit more than most. I’d say 15 is a safe bet and anything under 10 is risking having to take another year.
Can you talk about the costs of applying?
Between applying and travel costs for interviews, it was about $10,000. I had to fly to California, New York, Philly, Minnesota, Colorado, Chicago, and drive to a few places nearby. That’s not to mention the cost of signing up for the MCAT and study materials which I’d estimate to be $500. There’s also tuition, which hopefully the GI Bill covers. I used my GI bill on my history degree, so I was out of pocket. No doubt about it, this process is very expensive, so try to keep that in mind when doing your budget.
What types of attributes do you think veterans have that can help them in medical school?
In my experience, most people hold veterans in a favorable light, even in academia. People envision veterans as professional, punctual, hard-working, responsible, calm under stress, and clean cut. As long as you don’t flaunt it, you can definitely use your experience to get your foot in the door. Also, when it comes to applying to medical school, military experience will help your application stick out. A lot of traditional applicants have cookie-cutter applications that don’t catch the attention of admissions committees, so military experience will definitely help draw their eye.
Veterans are also an underrepresented demographic in medicine and schools try to fill those niches. While you still need good enough stats to get in, it definitely helps. Fair warning though- admissions committee members (or employers for that matter) probably won’t know the difference between a team leader or a company commander, what airborne means, or what Ranger School entails, so you’ll have to unpack all of that or present it in a way that ties into medicine.
I think the ability that veterans have to adhere to a routine, prioritize tasks, and manage stress are tremendously helpful in getting through medical school. To be honest, the workload of medical school is unlike anything I’ve done before. I have to be strict about time management just to make time to get everything done and goto the gym or relax a bit. There is also so much material to cover that I have to assign priority to what information is more important to focus on, just like delineating key tasks in an OPORD.
As you move into clinical year and you work inside a hospital, it’s important to project confidence and look professional. The military is where I learned that perception is reality and that stays true in medicine. Lastly, it’s important to be able to minimize the deleterious impact of stress, so knowing how to stay calm and take a deep breath when things start piling up is huge. We all joked about ‘hunting the good stuff’ and all that resiliency training stuff in the military, but it actually is helpful to stay resilient throughout this process. It is a long road full of ups and downs. All of these things were important in the military and are just as important in medical school and practicing as a physician, so I’d say veterans are highly prepared to succeed in medicine. We need more veterans in healthcare.
What are some of the similarities and differences you’ve experienced between medicine and the military?
The work ethic and professionalism you developed in the military will help immensely as you move forward. The attributes that make someone a good soldier or leader will also make you a good physician- teamwork, placing the needs of the mission and the men before your own, and sacrifice are all a part of being a doctor.
When a patient codes and there are 15 people in the room, a crash cart, and a family outside crying, you have to be able to think clearly and make rapid-fire decisions to help the patient out ASAP. You have to take charge- tell people to leave who are in the way, tell the nurse what meds to push, monitor the efficacy of compressions/resuscitation efforts, watch their vitals, get the respiratory techs to manage the airway, or make the tough decision that it’s time to call it. Veterans had to do the same, whether it was maneuvering their team under fire, sending reports up the chain, collecting your ACE reports, and making other similarly difficult decisions under stress.
Additionally, in the process of going from your first biology class to being a resident there are a lot of things you have to learn that make you wonder why a physician would need to know that. Whether it’s minutiae on a metabolism pathway or knowing the difference between a protostome and deuterostome. A lot of stuff you memorize and brain dump, so like the military, you might find yourself wondering why you’re spending so much time doing something that you’ll probably never use. It’s much like a rite of passage, which I felt like was big in the military. In both, you kind of just need to be good at sucking it up.
There’s also a hierarchy in medicine based on time in service, which mostly (not always) correlates to knowledge and experience. You have the pre-med, the med student (with hierarchies within), the intern, the junior resident, the chief resident, and the attendings. So knowing how to stay in your lane, which the military hammers into you, is important. There are also different specialties in medicine which attract different personality types. Radiologists neurologists are known for being cerebral, your type-A people might go into surgery, if you’re super ‘moto’ you might even go into neurosurgery or if you are a gym rat you might go into orthopedics or PMR.
There’s truly something for everyone- you just have to decide if you want something hands-on versus solving puzzles/diagnostics, long hours versus more balance, something unpredictable yet exciting or something more stable, more patient interaction versus less, etc. I think veterans have skills that’ll help them thrive in any field.
Lastly, medical school is pretty intense at times, just like the military. It’s a lot less physical, but it can be difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Kind of like when it’s 3am on day 4 of patrols in mountain phase and the point man decided to walk up that hill where all the contour lines blend into one and you’re just like “man…is this over yet?” So being able to put one foot in front of the other is huge.
You also have to have thick skin because the standards are high and you might be humbled a time or two. It’s important though because just like you want to make sure the people that are leading soldiers in the army are well-prepared, medical schools want to make sure you are qualified to treat patients when you are done with training. It can be painful at times, but it’s for the best in the long term.
What were the biggest challenges you faced in your transition off active duty?
I think the hardest thing was maintaining routine and discipline when I got out. I definitely had a phase where I grew my hair out, slept in until noon, and did whatever I felt like because I was used to external accountability and that wasn’t there anymore. To get through this you have to impose that discipline on yourself, so I’ve tapped back into those skills I had when I was immersed in a military setting.
You also have to be a little careful about what you say. It sounds a bit silly in hindsight, but it took me a minute to clean up my language. It was also hard going from the team-oriented mentality of being part of the military to school where it’s more about how well you do as an individual and not as a team. In undergrad, there were a handful of group projects where a member of the team didn’t respond to emails or pull their weight, so you have to learn how to navigate that. There’s also a type of student in medical school called ‘gunners’ who go out of their way to make other students look bad for their own gain or otherwise sabotage your experience. I think the culture of the army prevented that from becoming too prevalent, so it’s something I’ve had to learn to accept and not worry about.
Lastly, there were things that I thought would be easy and I would tell myself hey- it can’t be harder than JRTC in August, right? At least I have good food, a nice bed, and a hot shower. But some things ended up challenging me in different ways than I thought. Pre-med and medical school are a different beast and while they are certainly physically easier, the process of getting through all of this can be anxiety provoking and stressful.
On the flip side, veterans have the skills required to get through this and make a huge impact on the lives of patients throughout their career. The other veterans in my class are some of the best students I know. Even if it’s been a long time since you’ve gone to school, you can do this if you have the drive and commitment. You just have to figure out what form of studying works for you (practice problems, videos, reading, group studying) and run with it.
I’d like to put a plug in for Khan Academy- it’s free and the videos are short, to the point, and easy to understand. So even if it’s been 10+ years since you studied anything science related, it’ll get you caught up to speed. Just believe in yourself, trust the process, and jump in.
Most importantly, the French toast in Florida Phase of Ranger School or the pancakes at Mountains?
Oh man blueberry pancakes all day. I’d almost do mountains again just for the pancakes…almost.
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