Heading from the military to being a PA is quite common for veterans after the leave the military. It’s a great way to get into healthcare and start a great post-military career, but can be a lot more attractive for older veterans who don’t want to start the long process to being a doctor after leaving the military. Brooke runs the blog, She’s The Veteran, where she seeks to raise awareness about the almost 2 million women veterans in the United States.
ICON_PLACEHOLDEREstimated reading time: 23 minutes
Tell us a bit about yourself and your military history.
I come from a long line of military heritage dating back to my grandfather in WWII storming Normandy Beach, where he was wounded and received a purple heart. My dad is a retired Green Beret, and I am very proud to be the first female in my family that served in the military! Most of the men in my family were in the Army while the women, including my grandmother, were nurses.
I often joke I am representing both sides by combining both medical and military. I enlisted as a combat medic in 2009, serving eight years enlisted until I took my commission in 2018 as a physician assistant (PA). My enlistment was after completing college, but I wanted the medical experience in hopes to eventually apply to PA school.
I admit, I had thought about the military earlier but had doubts I could actually graduate from basic training! Looking back that was silly, but when you are a woman entering into a mostly male arena, you have to be mentally strong to rise to the challenges.
I’m very girly and all my friends told me that I wouldn’t make it and they would see me in a few days after not hacking it at “boot camp”. Turns out, this was the exact motivation I needed to excel in not just basic training, but my military career and eventually PA school. There is something to be said for tenacity and the motivation to never accept defeat.
My bachelor’s had a pre-medical emphasis as I had originally planned on going to medical school. I was so burned out by the end of my senior year, I decided I was no longer sure if that was what I really wanted. As a result, I never sat for my MCAT. It wasn’t long before I found myself floundering post-graduation and wondering what I really wanted to do with my life.
Around that time, my cousin (also retired Army!) was at my grandmother’s house talking about PAs and how cool their job is in the military. I had several friends in college that had been “Pre-PA” and saw the classes they took. I watched with a critical eye as they took what I considered “science light” classes while I was getting rocked trying to survive Organic Chemistry I and II.
At the time, I couldn’t figure out why anyone would want to go through so much trouble earning such a specific Bachelor’s then Master’s degree to be a doctor’s “assistant”. It was the military’s version of exactly what a PA can do that suddenly made sense and I realized that was my next goal in life.
I think sometimes it is still hard to describe to civilians (even fellow PAs) how much autonomy we have and the difference PAs make in the military. They run an entire battalion’s medical service for all the assigned troops, take on military leadership in fighting for the troops well-being (deployment eligible or service-connected release) and some even take command positions.
It will be 12 years this April since I joined the Army. I am now often asked if I will stay in until retirement and my response is always, I am going to continue to do it until I no longer enjoy it. I was active duty for my first 4 years and since then have been in the reserves. I was active in the Reserves the whole time throughout PA school. That was incredibly difficult, and had it not been for a great command that was both accommodating and supportive, I wouldn’t recommend doing that for most people.
And what did you do after you left active duty?
I find it interesting when you are enlisted and on active duty how much pressure there is to stay in. At the time, there were many high-ranking NCO’s that would constantly say, “You should stay in! It’s better than McDonalds!” Thanks guy. I am so glad THAT is all you thought I could do with my life.
I hope if there is someone reading this that has had that experience as well, you know it’s not true. You CAN get out of the military and excel in life. You just have to go for whatever it is you want. No one can decide your destiny but you. Forget the naysayers and negative people that are ok with being mediocre in life. If you want it, go get it.
Funny enough, because I did have my degree, I was eligible for some really awesome jobs and landed one only weeks after getting off active duty. I was really just putting out resumes to places like Monster and whatever other online job places there were at the time. Slinging mud against a wall to see what sticks if you will.
Check out the basics on using Linkedin for a job search here.
I actually didn’t remember submitting my resume to the company that called for an interview at first because they had such a shortened application process. I basically sent off my cover letter with the resume and that was it. Imagine my surprise when I was called for an interview with a pharmaceutical company. The manager was a retired Marine Corps Lt. Col, and we hit it off from the beginning.
I have always had an outgoing personality and knew a few people from college that had been in this field to know it may be a good fit for me. Fast forward to me working at a Fortune 500 company originally called Forest Pharmaceuticals and now known as Allergan Pharmaceuticals (Botox anyone?!).
Having a veteran as my manager straight off active duty couldn’t have been a better fit. He knew all the ins and outs of trying to shave off the rough edges coming into the civilian work force. I remember being at our New York month-long training and so many parents complaining about missing their children. I may or may not have told them to suck it up because there are people serving overseas that won’t see their family for an entire year. I didn’t think people sipping their Starbucks and ordering their French toast with fresh shaved vanilla bean had anything to complain about. That did not go over well.
I worked there for almost three years and won “Rookie of the Year” and was selected for “President’s Club” which is the top 10% of the company. I still was thinking about PA school and took some classes here and there to keep things updated. I hadn’t quite put away my dream of becoming a PA just yet. The majority of schools require you to have certain classes taken within 5, 7, or 10 years. All schools have their own quirks and some may not require any classes be updated at all.
Where would you tell a veteran to start in applying to Physician Assistant school?
The general suite of pre-reqs are:
- Chemistry I & II with labs (some schools may require higher chemistry such as Biochemistry)
- Human Anatomy and Physiology with labs
- Microbiology
- Psychology
- Calculus/Statistics.
There always seems to be an outlier of a class that only that school requires. For me, I had to take medical terminology as I had never had that class before. I think a difference between medical school and PA school is there doesn’t seem to be as much “judgement” when someone retakes a class for a better grade. There are often so many schools that prefer certain classes to be current that retaking them and getting a better grade will only help you in both circumstances.
For me, I wanted to find a school that was also a 100% match for the Yellow Ribbon Program and there were unlimited scholarships. Many programs participate in the Yellow Ribbon Program but limit the number or scope of the awards.
There are also programs that make you “apply” for the scholarship and compete with other students, such as the Duke PA program. Currently, they award three scholarships of matching $10,000. PA schools range from $90,000 to $150,000 for tuition so with the GI Bill paying 50% of tuition, that would leave a pretty large gap to cover if getting such a small amount from the school.
While Duke is the original founding program for PAs and often thought to be one of the #1 programs, there are often other things to consider when it comes to PA school for veterans. You can aim for the “top” programs but it does not play as much of an impact on job opportunities post-graduation as you might think.
Most schools list their PANCE (medical boards) pass rate and percentage of students that go on to be employed within the first 6 months after graduation. Those should be more important factors when considering where to apply.
I think one of the biggest things that should be asked when looking into programs that is often overlooked, is how many students do you typically start with and how many do you typically graduate. If you know a school has a huge cohort, like 120 students but they are only graduating 93, that’s a HUGE red flag in my book. It can be normal to lose one to two students even in a small school, but that is generally due to a personal issue such as a death in the family or a personal sickness. Anything bigger than that and I don’t think they have a supportive program that looks to help you get through it.
Some programs look at cutting people because they want their PANCE pass numbers to be as close to 100% as possible. If someone doesn’t look like they will make that, they are likely to not get the support they need to complete the program. My class graduated 40 out of 40. Most people will say they go to PA school where ever they get in. There was a guy in my class that applied to maybe 20 programs (that’s insane).
I think it’s important for veterans to know what they bring to the table and to utilize it. Pick a school you know will help you work through improving study habits, test taking skills, etc. The PA entity started because of the military – use that to your advantage and pick a school that fits you.
Lastly, it drives me crazy when people ask which school they should apply to. You have to decide what’s important to you. There are schools that are 24 months long to 36 months long. Some schools you apply and get accepted but don’t matriculate for a year, sometimes two.
I personally wanted a quick turn around. I applied in October, was interviewed and accepted in January and started by May. It is also important to look at their pre-requisites and match it up to your current classes. You don’t want to have to take a ton of classes to match what they require. There are standard ones that go for most programs (see above).
There are some programs though that are basically feeder programs where if you didn’t do your undergrad there, you likely won’t be able to find some of the odd classes they require. There were a ton of schools like this in Florida that I didn’t even consider.
At the end of the day, my list of most important things for me was Yellow Ribbon scholarship potential, veteran friendly, location (I hate cold weather) and gross anatomy class with dissection. (I’m a hands-on person and many programs don’t have this amazing privilege of actual cadavers. Or if they do, sometimes its prosections/your PA program doesn’t do the dissecting.)
What kinds of grades in what classes will you need?
The majority of schools have a requirement for a 3.0 science GPA. There are some variations out there, but that is pretty standard. I will say Physician Assistant school has become so popular, most of my classmates had a 4.0 or something very close to it.
Most schools will also have a separate standard of science GPA and overall GPA. So if you have a ton of fluff classes with high grades, it won’t help you much if your pre-requisites are low and don’t meet the cut off required GPA.
I recommend looking at what classes can offer “extra” points for landing an interview. For my school, having Genetics and Organic Chemistry both added extra points for my application. Anything you can do to make your application look like you have gone the extra mile can only help you. Acceptance rates to PA school are very low compared to the amount of people who apply. Being a veteran is already helpful, but it doesn’t hurt to make your application the best possible version!
How long did you spend studying for the GRE and what resources did you find most useful in your preparation?
I studied for a few months but at a very concentrated pace. It was my circumstances at the time and how late I decided to start applying. I’d recommend starting much earlier than that as it may be better for some pending their test taking skills. I used the Kaplan service based on my personal way of learning. For me, taking practice tests and thinking through what exactly made one answer correct and the other one wrong helps me set up a testing strategy. Much like PA school exams, there tends to be two top answers that are very similar. It’s usually phrased with “pick the best answer” meaning not how you think it should be, but what it actually is. There are so many resources now compared to even six years ago when I started PA school. From podcasts to YouTube videos, there’s something for everyone. I personally liked the set-up Kaplan had so it was one of my biggest resources and I used it to the full extent. Understanding how you learn is half the battle for picking a resource for test prepping. My goal was to take it once and have a competitive score. I succeeded with that. There were others in my class that took it multiple times, but that gets expensive. Best to plan to succeed and set yourself up for success with tons of study resources. Of note, lately there is a new PA school entrance exam called PA-CAT. I have never taken this test and not able to comment on what the makeup is like. My alma mater still requires the GRE, and I am sure most others still do as well. Best advice is to narrow down the schools you are interested in and do the one exam those schools require. It is so expensive to apply to PA schools, you don’t want to add unnecessary money and test stress.
Mark talking here: I personally used The Princeton Review to prep for the GRE and found their test service truly be second to none. At first glance, the price tag on these services can appear hefty, but when you factor in the difference that a good GRE score can make on your career outcomes, the ROI is WELL worth it. I used their self-paced course, which you can find here.
How important are extracurriculars in the admissions process? Where can veterans (or anyone) go for these types of programs?
VERY important!
PA schools are known to prefer students that are “well-rounded.” It is super common for most accepted to be on their second or even third career. Having life experience gives a good foundation for the insane ride that is PA school. We basically cover what Medical School does in almost half the time. If a person is mature and knows how to work through things and juggle life responsibilities, they are going to excel in PA school.
This is only in addition to having extracurriculars and volunteering in the community. There are so many options out there, it really should come down to what you are interested in. Enjoy children and playing games? Try the Boy & Girls Club. There are multiple short term volunteer options such as Habitat for Humanity or any 5k that is raising funds for a charity. Volunteering at a free medical clinic that serves the homeless or underserved population would be my number one recommendation though.
PAs are known for helping the underserved and this could be beneficial in your volunteer hours and also understanding why the PA profession is so needed. We help give medical care that wouldn’t be possible if only physicians had to do it all.
What types of extracurricular experience did you have?
I have been in Junior League since 2013 which is an international all women’s volunteer organization. From raising money to help feed children on school free lunch over the weekend to diapers banks, we are really involved with helping our community. I have also been on medical mission trips over the years and continue to do so now.
What’s the interview process like for PA school?
I would say the number one thing to know walking in is, they want to know you for you. Not what you THINK they want to hear. We had both group interviews and one-on-one interviews. While on the group interviews, I never answered the same as everyone else just to be status quo. I really tried to think about what was being asked and respond accordingly to who I am. This was often different than the others, but I also included my reasoning for my answer.
This includes ethics questions. They will ask, “if you see a physician do xyz, what would you do if this endangered a patient’s well-being?”
The patient should always come first and that’s the easy answer. The hard part is, that physician is likely your boss, so how would you approach that at the same time? There are tons of questions online that can help prep you for the interview, and I would recommend reviewing them with a friend prior to interviews.
Biggest helpful tip I can give you though, do NOT say you want to become a PA because you want to have a family OR a life outside of work. Most of the time, half the people interviewing you are physicians and they consider that offensive. As a veteran, you’ve been working in a team for some time. Being a team player while still being able to contribute as an individual is something we bring to the table others do not. Use that to your advantage and have scenarios in your mind where you excelled as a member of a team for the betterment of others.
Can you talk about the costs of applying?
Taking the GRE costs $205 while the newer exam PA-CAT is $228. The vast majority of PA schools use a system called CASPA (Centralized Application Service for Physician Assistants) for their application process. This is such a huge help to the applicant because you can have classes with grades uploaded, as well as patient care hours experience, letters of reference and extracurricular activities.
Mark’s pro tip: If you are taking the GRE while on active duty, you can get it covered the first time for free using Dantes. To learn more about the conditions of test day, check out this helpful article comparing the GRE and the GMAT.
From there, you simply pay a fee and hit the “submit” button to apply to your school. The starting fee to apply to the first school is $179 + $55 for each additional school. Of course, there is generally a supplemental application you submit apart from CASPA that also has a fee – mine was $110.
When accepting an offer to attend a program, that also comes with a fee. For my school, that was $500. It’s more of a safety net for the school that you are actually going to attend. Some schools apply it to your tuition fees but ask for it in order to begin classes. So to apply to only ONE school could cost around $500, then add travel expenses for a flight, hotel, food, etc. It adds up pretty quick. Best to do your homework and apply to schools you are really serious about accepting if you interview.
What types of attributes do you think veterans have that can help them in PA school?
There are tons of attributes we bring to the table that most in the civilian world do not. Veterans, in particular, are known for grit and tenacity. It takes a mentally strong person to get into and complete PA school. It is a very intense time in your life and some are not able to adapt as well as veterans.
I’ve often been asked how I was ever able to: insert crazy Army thing like ruck marching 12 miles in 3.5 hours or whatever. The answer for me was always, I never really thought about it, I just DID it. I was told we needed to do xyz to complete a task, and I put one foot in front of the other until it was done.
The same applies for PA school. Anything below a B grade is a “Fail” and after a couple fails, you get kicked out of PA school. There is no grey area for that. There are no extra credit assignments or the ever popular “recycle.” Having a target like that combined with the tenacity to complete any task in front of you gives us an endurance unrivaled to our civilian counterparts.
When it gets tough and you have 4 exams in one week, haven’t slept, ate or seen your family in weeks, most military people have something they look back at and say, “This isn’t so bad. Remember when I worked 5 days in a row while getting shot at in Iraq, and just when I got back to my CHU to sleep, someone volunteered me for a detail to pick up cigarette butts from around our AO?” Yea, we have much worse things to reflect on.
At the end of the day, not getting an “A” on a test seems ridiculous for people to cry about (you WILL see civilians crying over this) and you think to yourself- no one is dying!!! It can’t be THAT bad. Us veterans are very grounded in what is tragic and what is something we can try to improve and move on from.
What are some of the similarities and differences you’ve experienced between medicine and the military?
I think it is best summed up by the saying – when in charge, be in charge. While not the physician, I think it is easy for some to assume as a PA we don’t “run” things. That is true in a lot of instances, but at the end of the day, you have to “own” your patients.
I was told when I first started in neurosurgery, once the surgeon leaves the operating room, that’s MY operating room and MY patient. Meaning the person who needs to be watching out for them is me. There have been times where decisions have needed to be made and the doctor may have been with another patient on another floor. I made decisions based on taking care of the patient, not saying let’s wait until he gets back and then decide.
There were times prior to surgery where the patients blood pressure has gone up significantly where it isn’t safe to proceed, but not everyone has an attention for details. Even if my surgeon is in the room, I will bring it up or even ask the CRNA why their blood pressure isn’t controlled. We will stop until everything is stable and then proceed.
The same can be said when I was a medic. As the medic for my commander on PSD, when it came to who I expected to help me during medical emergencies, it didn’t matter the rank. Those were my patients, and I needed people to complete the tasks I gave them for the benefit of the patient.
What were the biggest challenges you faced in your transition off active duty?
Understanding the lack of mental toughness in the world. When I worked for pharmaceutical sales, I had a partner that was polar opposite of me. While looking back, I can see how that was a compliment to my own personality, it was tough for me to understand at the time. I wake up motivated to take on the day; and if I need to get up at 0300, I will get up at 0300 to make things happen. Let’s just say not everyone is an early riser or able to sacrifice things like sleep in the name of being the best at your job.
There were places that you could only do your job if arriving at 0700 and living a two hour drive away meant for some early mornings. I was not one to miss that opportunity and always made the effort to be there on my assigned day. This was not the same goal for everyone. At the time, I thought people were just lazy. I realize now that there were likely other opportunities that had just as much impact on our team’s success as the one I was so dogmatic about.
There are many ways to accomplish a goal and everyone doing the exact same thing isn’t always the best way OR only way to get it done. Very different than the Army concept of everyone doing the same thing over and over again until mission completed.
What are some of the biggest challenges you see for women veterans vs male veterans when it comes to coming off active duty?
I think for most women veterans (not all) we lack the ability to translate our experience into important job skills. It is easy to look at something and think, I can’t apply for that because I don’t qualify. Male veterans tend to have an easier time transitioning their skillset into desirable attributes an employer is looking for. They also think they can likely land a job even if not having the exact qualifications based on understanding their own ability to learn fast and quickly adapt to what is needed.
I think this is reflective of a few things. Mentality and mentorship are the biggest differences for women vs men coming from the military. First, women are vastly outnumbered in the military so there is already a shortage of what could be available mentors.
Also, let’s be honest. There are many women out there who do not want to see other women excel. I myself was often all too familiar with women that wanted to see me fail and went out of their way to try and make it happen. So to find a female veteran that wants to mentor you and help you achieve your dreams can be hard to come by. Male veterans tend to be better at passing on the leadership skills they have learned along the way and best advise how to avoid the “landmines” in life or career.
Mentality is the other factor giving men a head start to making the change to civilian life. Men are used to putting the mission first and keeping their eye on the prize so to speak. For the most part, women often put themselves last, so coming off active duty may suddenly look like moving to somewhere their spouse or children want to go. Even if her job opportunities or dream job is located closer to where she got off active duty, she will often opt to not pursue it. Men tend to go for it and women tend to hold back. They will see if what they want works with what everyone else around her wants first.
Women are often told by family or society they are a bad mom for joining the military while men are treated like heroes. The mom guilt is real, and time can suddenly look like trying to make up for “lost time” instead of pursuing dreams.
I’ll never forget a conversation I had with my godmother. I was on leave during deployment and went to visit her in Greece. (She’s from there and had just moved back to Athens from the States.) She looked me dead in the eye and told me being a soldier as a woman was no life to live and if I wanted to ever get married and have children, I needed to get out ASAP.
Thanks, godmother.
I appreciate the support. *sigh*
What are some of the biggest challenges you see for women veterans vs male veterans when it comes to applying to PA school?
I think its important to have an understanding of what was accomplished while in the military for women. To be able to communicate that, even if it isn’t related to the medical field, can be important during the interview process. Women veterans shouldn’t sell themselves short.
I would advise reaching out to a local female PA and asking to shadow them and even if they would be willing to mentor them. Most of the male veterans that are looking to apply to PA school have often already done this (from my experience of talking to PA school candidates and other male veteran friends looking to apply).
The women shouldn’t be scared to reach out for fear of rejection. If one person says no, move on to the next one. The one that said no wouldn’t likely have been a good fit anyways. Women tend to live in self-doubt, dwell on why that person said no and continued to question the value they bring to the table. Male veterans are much better at taking that hit and moving on to the next without even a thought.
I hope many more women out there are able to take some of this advice and use it! I am also more than happy to answer any questions people may have along the way. The PA profession was started with military personnel coming off active duty. I will do anything I can to help those interested pursue their dreams if I can!
Related Articles:
100 Things Veterans Should Know Before Leaving the Military
Veterans Are Great For Dentistry
Military to Medical School: Ralph Bogan
GI Bill® is a registered trademark of the Department of Veteran’s Affairs.